tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post337779715596951166..comments2023-11-02T07:47:10.433-04:00Comments on Vindicated: Do Bishops Really Matter?Kylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14641068117855718120noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-90036425846299101182007-06-09T19:32:00.000-04:002007-06-09T19:32:00.000-04:00When the representatives of a denomination insist ...When the representatives of a denomination insist that by the nature of its own polity, it is impossible to respond directly to any challenges of the wider Communion, they're being deeply disingenuous. <BR/><BR/>I've not heard them announce an emergency GenCon, have you? <BR/><BR/>To paint the assertion of episcopal authority to govern and speak for the whole church as authoritarian is too easy. Also a cop out.Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14641068117855718120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-2677569390642582502007-06-09T09:51:00.000-04:002007-06-09T09:51:00.000-04:00Hmm... that's what I thought was going on. It's go...Hmm... that's what I thought was going on. It's good to have confirmation from someone within spitting distance, as it were.Steve Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11283123400540587033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-44710120489078349792007-06-07T13:31:00.000-04:002007-06-07T13:31:00.000-04:00KyleNever mind your detractors - you are spot on.Kyle<BR/><BR/>Never mind your detractors - you are spot on.SaintSimonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14067501906240885393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-22601670865082299132007-06-07T12:16:00.000-04:002007-06-07T12:16:00.000-04:00Dear Kyle,It would be contrary to the customs of t...Dear Kyle,<BR/><BR/>It would be contrary to the customs of the primitive Church of England for the bishops to do anything in synod without the consent of the laity. Most of the ancient Church Synods were held simultaneously with Witangemotes. For indeed as Kenneth writes in Ecclesiastical Synods, "Even in the Saxon times, if there was any subject of laws for the outward peace and temporal government of the Church, such laws were properly ordained by the king and his great council of clergy and laity intermixed..." Only doctrinal questions properly belonged to the bishops. It is the custom in this country to introduce lay participation in a different way. <BR/><BR/>Now I know you strongly object to Constantinian forms. But it was on similar basis that many of the Ecumenical Councils legislated. Or do you assert that the Undivided Church lacked the fullness of episcopal government?<BR/><BR/>Best regards,<BR/><BR/>Caelius SpinatorCaeliushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15490717245066578132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-64928514420678419812007-06-07T10:52:00.000-04:002007-06-07T10:52:00.000-04:00It has never seemed to me that liberals are saying...It has never seemed to me that liberals are saying bishops don't matter, they are just saying that they matter differently. Clearly liberals think bishops matter or Fr. Lawrence would have received the necessary consents to be a bishop. <BR/><BR/>What is not in our polity is for bishops to govern autocratically, with complete and unhindered authority. Even within their own diocese they are advised by Standing Committees. And it is undeniably true that decisions of the national church simply are not made by the House of Bishops, but by General Convention, comprised of both houses, or the Executive Council in between sessions of General Convention. <BR/><BR/>It's not a cop-out to say "it's not in our polity," it's simply the way this geographic culturally conditioned part of the Church has chosen as its perceived most faithful mode of governance. Disagree with the polity, if you'd like. Say that bishops shouldn't be guided by standing committees or that the voice of the laity and presbyters shouldn't have a legislative voice in the national church. But don't claim dishonesty on the part of liberals because they believe that there is a middle ground in polity between Roman hierachical bishops and Southern Baptist congregational/convention centered polity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-48023541490911755502007-06-07T10:05:00.000-04:002007-06-07T10:05:00.000-04:00No problem, Matt! :0)No problem, Matt! :0)Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14641068117855718120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-54404762011892236212007-06-07T09:15:00.000-04:002007-06-07T09:15:00.000-04:00What an utterly delightful bit of prose that you h...What an utterly delightful bit of prose that you have found here...<BR/><BR/>I'm at a complete loss as to what his point or the relevant issue at hand is. But if it produced such fine literature as that, I'm sure that it is worth knowing about... :-D<BR/><BR/>Maybe a touch of translation from the peanut gallery?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com