tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post2016923445121530720..comments2023-11-02T07:47:10.433-04:00Comments on Vindicated: The Unity of the Church, part IIKylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14641068117855718120noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-21270734831750937032008-04-15T11:59:00.000-04:002008-04-15T11:59:00.000-04:00When any two gather, two questions inevitably aris...When any two gather, two questions inevitably arise:<BR/><BR/>1. Who is in charge here?<BR/><BR/>2. Who says it is you?<BR/><BR/>Everything else seems like commentary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-51527650621850289632008-04-13T16:08:00.000-04:002008-04-13T16:08:00.000-04:00The issue goes back to East-West, Catholic-Anglica...The issue goes back to East-West, Catholic-Anglican, which Anglican, etc. divisions. However, one needs to take off the rose colored glasses to see the Dominican-Franciscan, Armenian, and other theological differences even within the Catholic Churches in full communion with Rome. Don't you think? I wonder how they can be reconciled. Pardon my ignorance, if anything.+ simonashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16819645160867324283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-58624897350405455602008-04-10T11:44:00.000-04:002008-04-10T11:44:00.000-04:00If I remember my reading of the Venerable Richard ...If I remember my reading of the Venerable Richard Hooker, his approach to the question was not to de-Church communities that did not have the signs of the Church you mention in your post. He was writing just as the dust of the Reformation was settling. Churches like the Reformed in Switzerland and the Lutherans in Germany certainly lacked some of the marks of the Catholic Church, but it was the need for reformation that forced them to move forward without those marks. To Hooker, they were authentic parts of the body of Christ, but imperfectly formed. In other words, for example, he would not de-Church them because they did not have the historic episcopate, BUT, he would have argued that they need to get busy restoring it. Unfortunately they did not get busy. (Except Swedish Lutherans).<BR/><BR/>I write all that to say, Hooker's approach might be helpful in forging a way to accept less than Catholic Churches as part of the Body of Christ while still insisting that Anglicanism gets the marks right and is fully Catholic. IOW -- a to be charitable and still have convictions.Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02295156469257261349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-82797256383771254212008-04-10T11:21:00.000-04:002008-04-10T11:21:00.000-04:00Kyle,Both the last post and this one are probably ...Kyle,<BR/><BR/>Both the last post and this one are probably THE most important issue for the Church today (certainly in America where our divisions just serve to encourage our participation in the consumerist worldview) and yet it seems to have the LEAST sense of urgency for some reason.<BR/><BR/>I don't have time to respond well enough here, but (at least for now) a few thoughts/questions...<BR/><BR/>At one time Anglo-Catholics thought of themselves as recovering something essentially true for the Church. Today we settle for being tolerated as one more "style." Why?<BR/><BR/>I think that John Zizoulas (Orthodox theologian), in Being as Communion, goes so far as to ask the question: if there are multiple Eucharists being celebrated in the same area (loosely defined), are any of them valid? Isn't this division itself an anti-sign? (I don't have the book in front of me and will be out of town this weekend, but I can try to find the reference.)<BR/><BR/>In a situation like that of ECUSA and ELCA, who are in full communion, what does it mean to continue to have two bishops (one ECUSA and one ELCA)?<BR/><BR/>What ARE the important Church dividing issues? This question is an especially important one for Anglicans since the Anglican Communion is trying to decide whether to divide (and even you and I are in two different camps at the moment).<BR/><BR/>It seems to me that, at least historically, the ROOT dividing issue is authority--Church, councils, scripture, experience, reason, tradition, some combination of some or all of these, etc. Everything else comes from that.<BR/><BR/>Hopefully more later.<BR/><BR/>Good--no GREAT questions!<BR/><BR/>Father RhodesRob Rhodeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10043916964236259198noreply@blogger.com