tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post108006717369369417..comments2023-11-02T07:47:10.433-04:00Comments on Vindicated: On the Eucharistic LifeKylehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14641068117855718120noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-1160141434380704912006-10-06T09:30:00.000-04:002006-10-06T09:30:00.000-04:00Cheers, SaintSimon. That's a difficult but very im...Cheers, <B>SaintSimon</B>. <BR/><BR/>That's a difficult but very important point.Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14641068117855718120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-1158255335758179102006-09-14T13:35:00.000-04:002006-09-14T13:35:00.000-04:00DymphnaIn making pedophilia a 'deal breaker'you co...Dymphna<BR/><BR/>In making pedophilia a 'deal breaker'you contradict the scripture that only blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven and you underestimate the transforming work of Christ.<BR/><BR/>Yes, pedophiles are very sinister and manipualtive people, and it is not sufficient to trust one simply 'coz (s)he says (s)he's changed. But they CAN be saved, CAN be forgiven, and CAN change. (unless God is wrong, or the power of the cross is weak). Like it or not, some of the people you share heaven with will be forgiven and renewed pedophiles.<BR/><BR/>The challenge for us now is to find a way to include into the church the genuine cases while excluding the evil majority . I don't have an answer.SaintSimonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14067501906240885393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-1119367256371534872005-06-21T11:20:00.000-04:002005-06-21T11:20:00.000-04:00Yeah, I guess that's become a "normal" aspect of W...Yeah, I guess that's become a "normal" aspect of Western disintegration: community (as such) is a commodity, and perhaps even a fad at the moment.<BR/><BR/>Community as activity, as committment, is much more difficult, and not as sexy as advertised. You make a good point about "excommunication" being meaningless to most people. When people don't join their lives to others in any kind of permanent way (not even marriage!), it's would hardly be noticeable as discipline. And when people are constantly "communing with" and excommunicating everyone else as individuals, there's no context in which to submit to discipline.Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14641068117855718120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-1119281033943940232005-06-20T11:23:00.000-04:002005-06-20T11:23:00.000-04:00Being "shut out" of a community for one's sins is ...Being "shut out" of a community for one's sins is a very wounding experience. Which is not to say it's unnecessary: that's what prisons are for, after all. <BR/><BR/>The expression "beyond the pale" has always fascinated me. It meant you were sent to live in isolation and danger, well past the palings of the enclosed village or community.<BR/><BR/>But what is more likely today is that people walk right past those palings, indifferent to the community's admonishments and content to wander on by their lonesome...being 'shut out' has lost its power in the western world.<BR/><BR/>In this vein, there are some complete "deal-breakers" for me: pedophilia is one. Whether this disorder is neurochemical or characterological, it is nonetheless compulsive and progressive. Nor is there a 12 step program that can handle it...yep, definitely would have to put pedophiles beyond the pale, despite any protestation that they'd "changed."Dymphnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11332644582520636279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-1118173009317357362005-06-07T15:36:00.000-04:002005-06-07T15:36:00.000-04:00You know what? I think that's answer enough. (An...You know what? I think that's answer enough. (And very well said, at that.) God's heart is always for reconcilation, even when (especially when) ours are for something else altogether. <BR/><BR/>As I've been <A HREF="http://www.vbcc.net/schola04.html" REL="nofollow">reading some early Christian writers</A> with Alan and company, one of the most earth shattering things I've seen is that even when people are shut out of the community for sins against the community for which they have not repented, those writers are always keen on the restoration of the offenders. <BR/><BR/>Nothing is a complete deal-breaker. Everybody is always welcome to walk back into relationship.Kylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14641068117855718120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4009348.post-1118160078136439882005-06-07T12:01:00.000-04:002005-06-07T12:01:00.000-04:00Kyle, I don't have a lot of answers, but I have le...Kyle, I don't have a lot of answers, but I have learned this: The eucaristic life calls us to accept the messy work of staying in relationship with others. If we together are the whole loaf (body of Christ) then I must stay with the other pieces in order to keep Christ's body fully represented. I can't let go of people or allow them to just walk away.<BR/><BR/>This kind of life means we work to heal not only individual wounds, but also relational brokenness. Otherwise it is not Jesus' body broken for us, but Jesus' body broken by us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com